Citizenship by Investment is a scam

CBIs are open air fraud schemes, victims deserve to lose their money for a useless piece of paper.

JohnnyDoe said:

A passport bought via a CBI program is useless at best, most often harmful.
In addition to that, it enriches a few politicians without giving any benefit to the country. Some prosecutor might even consider the applicants as engaging in corruption.

maybe so... but it's a good thing there is at least a shitty option than nothing
the time will come when European countries will renew conscription and obligatory military service, bring citizenship-based taxation, etc. - you don't want to find yourself in a position of begging for passport renewal and held hostage of your own government

JohnnyDoe said:

Not really. It’s better to do nothing than to hurt yourself.

agreed... I was talking about the possibility to get one as a last resort option not to hold one right now

JohnnyDoe said:

At that time, they will announce that all CBI programs are illegal and citizenship so acquired is not recognized.

that's likely but it cannot happen that fast and especially globally - such a passport will probably be good to travel to many places
it didn't even cross my mind that somebody would like to enter France with Caribbean CBI passport ;)

JohnnyDoe said:

Do you think mighty Dominica or St. Kitts can rebel?

I don't but I don't believe Mexico, Paraguay, Panama or Mauritius have way better position/reputation

This is something I believe to be accurate but don’t have hard data on.

A Vanuatu passport seems worthless to me. It seems like a place where one would want to live under very few, very specific circumstances. There are many detailed stories of banking problems with these passports. Travel access is abysmal. I can’t imagine the African countries are much better, though the specific cases in which it might make sense are slightly more numerous, e.g., someone with business interests in West Africa wanting access to ECOWAS. I don’t see many instances where the value proposition of $100k US and total return on that amount of capital for one of these makes sense.

I’ve heard rumors of the Caribbean passports triggering enhanced due diligence at banks, but no detailed stories or confirmation. We can see the US and EU don’t like CBI with the travel bans and visa bonds applied to Caribbean islands that have lower overstay rates than ESTA-approved countries, and the EU’s moves against Caribbean CBI and Malta. I also suspect Georgia got pushback for their proposed CBI scheme last year. There are rumors that the EU will weaponize ETIAS against the islands.

Turkey seems to have found a niche: better than Nigeria but not good enough to suffer any fallout from a CBI program. The Caribbean islands might eventually fall to that level. They don’t have the diplomatic heft of an Argentina, which may or may not be able to get away with it.

I would expect Serbia to tighten their CBE (effectively unofficial CBI) at some point due to EU pressure. El Salvador is a bit of a joke at $1m US so they are being ignored. I’m sure they don’t do many of those. There is a profusion of “Vanuatus” and “Africas” with the new programs but if they can’t be used to go anywhere, no one cares enough to take action. Enjoy your unfettered access to the slums of Monrovia, I guess.

JohnnyDoe said:

Almost every country has a provision in its constitution whereby citizenship can be granted in recognition for something extraordinary - read money.

do you know anybody who went down this path? how much money are we talking?

JohnnyDoe said:

Vanuatu is a nice archipelago, but you certainly don’t need a passport to live there permanently.
Same for the Caribbean Islands, plenty of people who move there with a standard residence permit (and acquire citizenship through residence after some years).

With a fraction of the cost you can buy a replica passport from a real country and solve all the problems.

Often it’s just a trophy: people collect passports and show them to their friends.

100% accurate.

It’s more like citizenship for “special merits”. The same special merits that Zelensky must have had for obtaining Bahamian citizenship. Almost every country has a provision in its constitution whereby citizenship can be granted in recognition for something extraordinary - read money.

It’s just business. Pecunia non olet. And you can’t con a honest man.

My personal opinions below.

Living in the Caribbean makes sense to me. The region has good beaches, tropical weather, a lifestyle and atmosphere I generally like, a decently integrated (albeit small) regional economy, some useful services, you can fly just a few hours and be in Miami, Panama, or South America, and you can even get to London, CdG, or Schipol from some of these places for not much more time than a flight from the US. I even had a girlfriend from Trinidad for a while.

Vanuatu? I’m sure the weather and beaches are nice. The rest? You’re going to be flying for ages and then you’ll still only be in Fiji or Australia. That place is at the end of the world. Trans-Pacific flights hit different. I’m sure it might appeal to some. It’s not for me.

I don’t see the cost-benefit working out even if one does like the Caribbean. As you said, residence permits are more cost effective. For non-Caribbean focused purposes? If someone only has a Pakistani passport, there probably are some short-term benefits. Bankers are already going to look at his original passport like he dropped a dead skunk on their desks. Dominica probably can’t make it much worse. Even when EU access is lost, he is going from nearly nothing to nearly something. Long-term, the stability of his citizenship status itself as well as travel access and any other benefits are questionable.

void said:

do you know anybody who went down this path? how much money are we talking?

I technically got my Canadian citizenship through their by exception law, but the circumstances were very peculiar. I know a few who got US citizenship by exception, but again through peculiar circumstances. One was a Czechoslovakian fighter pilot who defected with his MiG during the Cold War. Serbian citizenship by exception requires around €350 000, on average, for a “donation” these days per my latest knowledge. In practice, they evaluate your circumstances and net worth before deciding how much to soak you for, and they don’t bother to use my euphemism above. They flat out call it a bribe.

JohnnyDoe said:

Latest news:

Here the full list:

Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Antigua and Barbuda
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belize
Bhutan
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazil
Myanmar
Cambodia
Cameroon
Cape Verde
Colombia
Côte d’Ivoire
Cuba
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Dominica
Egypt
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Fiji
The Gambia
Georgia
Ghana
Grenada
Guatemala
Guinea
Haiti
Iran
Iraq
Jamaica
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kosovo
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Liberia
Libya
North Macedonia
Moldova
Mongolia
Montenegro
Morocco
Nepal
Nicaragua
Nigeria
Pakistan
Republic of the Congo
Russia
Rwanda
St Kitts and Nevis
St Lucia
St Vincent and the Grenadines
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
South Sudan
Sudan
Syria
Tanzania
Thailand
Togo
Tunisia
Uganda
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
Yemen

They forgot Vanuatu 🤣

No India on that list lol, I guess the US govt would make some multinationals very mad if so

JohnnyDoe said:

We should ask Zelensky about the Bahamas.

I texted him and he said it was free... gesture of gratitude for contribution to the world peace